Pakistan - Can someone please explain ... Coffers are empty, electricity is at the brink of extinction, inflation is at an all time high, yet a deputy PM is added to the 'people friendly' list of VVIP's? ----- I would rather bring Musharraf back ... Funny that no one is talking about it
Some very interesting feedback by my friends and colleagues....
Omair Chaudhry Agree with the sentiment but there is no short cut to democracy. Present government is fully corrupt (A-Z) and incompetent. But if we want to break the vicious cycle between army for few years and then ‘civil’ government for few then we have to take this hard (very hard) medicine and let these clown complete their time and let the People not the military throw (vote) them OUT!
Khalid Saleem Agreed bro... Imran is the option and bringing back Mush was just a reference :) definitely army isn't the solution either
Junaid Arshed Khalid : you dont need to worry , people will test these corrupt leaders and then in next election they will kick them out and bring PTI and then all of these corrupt will join PTI and will get re-elected and the cycle will continue
Asad Ansari Continuing with what you said, what are the people of pakistan doing? Readdressing what you said, funny that one is "doing" anything about it. I am probably wrong but it feels like people in pakistan are content with their lives. If I am wrong then why haven't we seen a replication of tahriri square? Roughly 80% of population lives under $2 a day...Isn't it time to shuffle things a bit..Allah said, conditions won't change unless the state of people change. Allah knows best.
Zubair Jami sir ji, in this limited time PM will nt have much of time for looting.... so there has to b another one to fill in the gaps
Omair Chaudhry Junaid that's not cycle but progress coz in that case people will vote PTI out.... It needs to be organic system... Only then policy will matter not the people in ur party
Junaid Arshed yes Omair and that progressive cycles will take at least 100 years to reach a point where these kind of issues Khalid mentioned can be resolved.I personally believe Pakistan is today , what many of developed countries in Europe were in 1812.
Nauman Rashid Khan it Brings me a smile. Junaid being sarcastic, Puppy worried and Omair being optimistic. U all r right in ur own regard. in simple words, mujhe aisa lagta hai k hum ne Democracy k sabaq ka ratta laga lia hai or samjh k yaad nahi kia. To Iqbal, democracy is a system where "Bandon ko gina jata ha, tola nahin jata". Im not saying its a bad system but just that its successful application pre-requires a population where people who weigh are greater in number and willing to participate. There may b many examples but at the moment im reminded of Jamshed Dasti only, whose re-election to power is an arithmatic validation of our cumulative political brain. Also, apparent and inherent problem of Army rule is its autocratic nature. Would u not classify the incumbent regime as autocratic? Or do u expect the next regime not to be? When along the timeline do u expect approaching a stage where Pakistanis would have "progressed" that they would vote out a political party on the basis of their policy?
Junaid Arshed Nauman : i will give ghissi pitti theory again here .You are what your unconscious is ,your unconscious is built based on environment ( values , culture , religion and habits ) .Environment affects psychology , when this environment is persistent , this psychology is persistent and it will become part of your DNA and you will inherit it in your DNA.To undo your DNA , you have to undo all environment in a form of cycle .For case of subcontinent , its question of 1000 yrs .They have to change their unconscious which was built based on environment of 1000 yrs ( as in case of jamshed dasti ).This is very difficult but not impossible.
Ahmad Wain Nauman, excellent questions with no easy answers. In my opinion we need 5% willing to turn the mental switch ON for the other 95% and make them realize the power they possess. I think there is no 3-4 generation process, there is always 1 concious generation that turns a nations around. We have to decide if we are the ONE. You can count me among the optimistics I guess :)
Khalid Saleem Guys I am amazed that this simple question brought all this great discussion back again .. I am loving it and with your due permission i am gonna start with this on my blog. The biggest question how will we fix this problem and what is it that will make us realize that creating political martyrs does not help the nation
Omair Chaudhry Great debate. I guess one thing is for sure we Pakistanis since independence have been impatient and I guess that's the reason we never allowed a single government to complete its tenure. Thats the reason we are stuck in this cycle. When we are ruled by military after few years we turn against them and then once we have corrupt gov we are waiting for military to take over instead of voting them out ourseleves. Democracy is a slow and organic system which needs time to go to the grass root level. Junaid it might take 100 years (although I am optimistic it won't just look at our doorstep) but I would say its better to be on a slow train thats on the right track instead to be on a fast one which keeps on getting off every now and then. Nauman I don't expect any society changes in a single day and I don't expect it to. Its over time. What you need for society to mature is their right to make their voices heard and listened to and the first step in this is to give them the RIGHT to VOTE. So keep your chins up and remeber to vote on election day instead of sitting on sofa for next 5 years and cribbing about the system, goverment and society!
Junaid Arshed four important things for nation demise and rise are knowledge , economy , morality and awareness.someone definitely has to lead but remember change is never up to down , its always down to up .When people at down will have these four things , a change will come that will move upwards .
Kayani Javaid Ask us .I look back 60 years of my life....Politicians and mainly bureaucratic organs placed package after package to every leader military or civilian to utilize the tool of making money... .looted and plundered Pakistan..with both hands and even now every minute..provided foolproof ways to get out of it and in end both took advantage....see the senior bureaucrats Joint Secretary and above ...even retired how they live and how their kids have been educated and settled...
Kayani Javaid most unfortunate...the Deputy PM was nominated as one would to assassinators by BB herself in a letter to Musharraf
Ahmad Wain It wasnt long ago, people came out on the streets, raised awareness and voted to create Pakistan. It didnt take too long and 100% literacy wasnt a pre-requisit. Its time for a repeat to save Pakistan and when the 5% amongst us is willing to step up and do this pains-taking job remains to be seen.
Ahmad Wain Perhaps the 5% still have electricity through UPS and can still afford petrol to run generators, they can still get to work and come home for dinner. Their kids still go to a reasonable school and they can still afford a vacation. Life is good :)
Khalid Saleem Not that I have followed Pakistani media lately but I am yet to see the media present this as outright abuse of power ... The chief justice sneezes and media jumps on it, talk about conspiracies and the Geo's, Dunya's and other outlets will present it as if the world is about to end yet I have still not seen a true condemnation of such blatant abuse of power .... Are they intentionally ignoring it ? Finally, I really don't understand why the Riaz Malik fiasco is such a big deal. The current situation is simply a clash of personalities and should not be confused with the supremacy of judiciary or courts as the office bearers should be answerable to the people ..(not that I consider Malik Riaz an honest man)
Khalid Saleem Agreed bro... Imran is the option and bringing back Mush was just a reference :) definitely army isn't the solution either
Junaid Arshed Khalid : you dont need to worry , people will test these corrupt leaders and then in next election they will kick them out and bring PTI and then all of these corrupt will join PTI and will get re-elected and the cycle will continue
Asad Ansari Continuing with what you said, what are the people of pakistan doing? Readdressing what you said, funny that one is "doing" anything about it. I am probably wrong but it feels like people in pakistan are content with their lives. If I am wrong then why haven't we seen a replication of tahriri square? Roughly 80% of population lives under $2 a day...Isn't it time to shuffle things a bit..Allah said, conditions won't change unless the state of people change. Allah knows best.
Zubair Jami sir ji, in this limited time PM will nt have much of time for looting.... so there has to b another one to fill in the gaps
Omair Chaudhry Junaid that's not cycle but progress coz in that case people will vote PTI out.... It needs to be organic system... Only then policy will matter not the people in ur party
Junaid Arshed yes Omair and that progressive cycles will take at least 100 years to reach a point where these kind of issues Khalid mentioned can be resolved.I personally believe Pakistan is today , what many of developed countries in Europe were in 1812.
Nauman Rashid Khan it Brings me a smile. Junaid being sarcastic, Puppy worried and Omair being optimistic. U all r right in ur own regard. in simple words, mujhe aisa lagta hai k hum ne Democracy k sabaq ka ratta laga lia hai or samjh k yaad nahi kia. To Iqbal, democracy is a system where "Bandon ko gina jata ha, tola nahin jata". Im not saying its a bad system but just that its successful application pre-requires a population where people who weigh are greater in number and willing to participate. There may b many examples but at the moment im reminded of Jamshed Dasti only, whose re-election to power is an arithmatic validation of our cumulative political brain. Also, apparent and inherent problem of Army rule is its autocratic nature. Would u not classify the incumbent regime as autocratic? Or do u expect the next regime not to be? When along the timeline do u expect approaching a stage where Pakistanis would have "progressed" that they would vote out a political party on the basis of their policy?
Junaid Arshed Nauman : i will give ghissi pitti theory again here .You are what your unconscious is ,your unconscious is built based on environment ( values , culture , religion and habits ) .Environment affects psychology , when this environment is persistent , this psychology is persistent and it will become part of your DNA and you will inherit it in your DNA.To undo your DNA , you have to undo all environment in a form of cycle .For case of subcontinent , its question of 1000 yrs .They have to change their unconscious which was built based on environment of 1000 yrs ( as in case of jamshed dasti ).This is very difficult but not impossible.
Ahmad Wain Nauman, excellent questions with no easy answers. In my opinion we need 5% willing to turn the mental switch ON for the other 95% and make them realize the power they possess. I think there is no 3-4 generation process, there is always 1 concious generation that turns a nations around. We have to decide if we are the ONE. You can count me among the optimistics I guess :)
Khalid Saleem Guys I am amazed that this simple question brought all this great discussion back again .. I am loving it and with your due permission i am gonna start with this on my blog. The biggest question how will we fix this problem and what is it that will make us realize that creating political martyrs does not help the nation
Omair Chaudhry Great debate. I guess one thing is for sure we Pakistanis since independence have been impatient and I guess that's the reason we never allowed a single government to complete its tenure. Thats the reason we are stuck in this cycle. When we are ruled by military after few years we turn against them and then once we have corrupt gov we are waiting for military to take over instead of voting them out ourseleves. Democracy is a slow and organic system which needs time to go to the grass root level. Junaid it might take 100 years (although I am optimistic it won't just look at our doorstep) but I would say its better to be on a slow train thats on the right track instead to be on a fast one which keeps on getting off every now and then. Nauman I don't expect any society changes in a single day and I don't expect it to. Its over time. What you need for society to mature is their right to make their voices heard and listened to and the first step in this is to give them the RIGHT to VOTE. So keep your chins up and remeber to vote on election day instead of sitting on sofa for next 5 years and cribbing about the system, goverment and society!
Junaid Arshed four important things for nation demise and rise are knowledge , economy , morality and awareness.someone definitely has to lead but remember change is never up to down , its always down to up .When people at down will have these four things , a change will come that will move upwards .
Kayani Javaid Ask us .I look back 60 years of my life....Politicians and mainly bureaucratic organs placed package after package to every leader military or civilian to utilize the tool of making money... .looted and plundered Pakistan..with both hands and even now every minute..provided foolproof ways to get out of it and in end both took advantage....see the senior bureaucrats Joint Secretary and above ...even retired how they live and how their kids have been educated and settled...
Kayani Javaid most unfortunate...the Deputy PM was nominated as one would to assassinators by BB herself in a letter to Musharraf
Ahmad Wain It wasnt long ago, people came out on the streets, raised awareness and voted to create Pakistan. It didnt take too long and 100% literacy wasnt a pre-requisit. Its time for a repeat to save Pakistan and when the 5% amongst us is willing to step up and do this pains-taking job remains to be seen.
Ahmad Wain Perhaps the 5% still have electricity through UPS and can still afford petrol to run generators, they can still get to work and come home for dinner. Their kids still go to a reasonable school and they can still afford a vacation. Life is good :)
Khalid Saleem Not that I have followed Pakistani media lately but I am yet to see the media present this as outright abuse of power ... The chief justice sneezes and media jumps on it, talk about conspiracies and the Geo's, Dunya's and other outlets will present it as if the world is about to end yet I have still not seen a true condemnation of such blatant abuse of power .... Are they intentionally ignoring it ? Finally, I really don't understand why the Riaz Malik fiasco is such a big deal. The current situation is simply a clash of personalities and should not be confused with the supremacy of judiciary or courts as the office bearers should be answerable to the people ..(not that I consider Malik Riaz an honest man)
